We meet three kinds of people when it comes to retirement.
Those who can tell us exactly what their retirement will be like but need help Those who are about to start on the journey towards improving their likely retirement Those unable to come to terms with the decisions required to create what they desire
On an almost daily basis Josh and I speak with all three. The first two types provide fun and often entertaining conversations. They tackle the planning process with much enthusiasm, some nerves, and a little fear of the unknown. All totally normal. They realize the possibilities.
The enthusiasm almost never disappears. The nerves come and go obviously depending upon current activity. The fear disappears, usually without a return visit. There’s something about making a well thought out decision about something as important as your retirement. Once the line in the sand is crossed, it becomes an adventurous journey instead of a dreaded chore.
As it should be.
The third type has always been a bit of a mystery to me. I’m not a psychologist nor do I ever pretend to be one. Some folks seem to have a push/pull side of their makeup and struggle with these types of decisions. This comes up less than you might think, but enough that I’d love to deal with it better than I think I’ve done in the last few decades.
I sympathize with these folks as I’ve seen real pain over the years. It’s as if they know what they should do, but can’t say the words no matter what. Sometimes I get the feeling they’re thinking I’ve given up on helping them.
That couldn’t be further from the truth.
Why am I talking about this? Why now?
She called today.
There’s a local woman in her 60′s who’s been calling me every year, though sometimes she skips a year. I’ll bet she has every letter I’ve ever sent out to investment property owners. Each conversation is the same. She talks about working in her garden. She wants to get started on her retirement program. She’s about 62 now, and is the nicest lady you’d ever want to speak with. She’s in a great position to do some very good things for herself.
But she never will.
This has been going on since the first part of 1997. The circumstances haven’t changed, except for the fact her net worth has gone up staggeringly. I spoke with her again today, and kiddingly asked her why she puts herself through this charade. She went silent. I prodded her.
Turns out the multi-unit property in which she lives was built by her husband who passed away in 1995. I’ve given her more than a few chances, no doubt dozens over the years to tell me this. All she ever said was that she was a widow. Though I suspected her reluctance to ever act might be connected to either her family or the memory of her husband, there was literally no way to know, as she gave no hints.
One time she actually got as far as asking me to take a look at her property with her. We spent the bulk of our time together admiring her garden. If she would have allowed me to guide her back when we first met, or even a few years later, she would be at least several times better off. But maybe not by her measure. See what I mean? A mystery.
She said her husband bought the slice of dirt on which her garden resides from the neighbors behind them. Oh. Nothing’s gonna change.
After our conversation today, which lasted the usual half hour or so, she began to sound different. I can’t explain it, but I don’t think I’ll hear from her again. Since I haven’t been sending the normal
marketing letters locally for quite awhile, it dawned on me she might have taken it personally. A silly thought, isn’t it? But that’s what struck me. She was sad, and by the time we hung up I was too.
She knew she was probably never gonna make a change, yet nearly every year she’d call me with renewed enthusiasm. Why? And why tell me now about how her husband got her the space for the garden?
I don’t know, but I’m more than a little sad. First because of how I could have helped improve her financial security in retirement. But mostly because I think today’s call was probably her last. Is she in financial trouble? Not really. Her units are debt free, and always rented. Don’t get me wrong, she won’t be going on any cruises soon. When her Social Security checks start coming, they’ll help. Her property is old, easily over 40. She could literally be living anywhere she wanted by now if she’d have made the right moves years ago.
I’ll gonna ask The Boss for her insight, as she’s better at this sorta thing than I’ll ever be. I know I did my best every time we talked, so why do I feel like I failed her so miserably?
Maybe she got from me what she wanted. I surely hope so. I know one thing for sure.
I did my best for her.
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Jeff,
What a story. Melancholy and Uplifting at the same time. It is hard to understand people sometimes: “a mystery” as you put it. I often find myself marveling at the same thing. I say “Here is an outcome that I believe you will like (more successful career in my case, better retirement in your case) and all you have to do is take it. Yet some people just will not act. It could be a bag of money on the table but they will not step over and pick it up.
Sometimes, late at night, I look back and wonder if the problem lies in the part where I believe I know what they want or what is best for them. Because there have been times in the past where I missed it completely.
Like you, I am not a psychologist and I do not even pretend to play one on TV. I do pretend to play a Zen Master much of the time, so I will share this from last night’s Fortune Cookie:
We do not see the whole picture and never will. We assign meanings to events that are only stills taken from the ongoing movie of life. We may not always understand it, but have absolute faith that every scene in the movie is a benefit to us (We just do not know how all the time!)
Thanks for a great post.
Jeff, you already know this, but some people don’t have the same desire for a high net worth as others. My grandma was the same way, she had her garden, too, she had her social security and it was more important to hang on to the property, it gave her immense pleasure. she also wanted, very badly, to leave the property to the kids. She lived on her slice of dirt, 45 acres on an island outside of Portland, OR, for nearly 20 years after my grandpa died. She died at home, days before her 90th birthday.
I think you would feel worse if she was calling you from Idaho missing her garden and not really caring about the money. Then you would be wrestling with the thoughts that maybe you went to far to in convincing her.
She knows she could be doing better, she reads and I would guess talks to her neighbors, then she calls you, maybe she thinks that is what she is supposed to do, but doesn’t really wanna go anywhere.
Kelly
Isn’t that just the thing about real estate? So often there is emotion and (ick) feelings connected with it.
You would never get emotional about bonds or stocks but people do come to love their real estate.
Sometimes it’s not even as sane a reason as the woman in your article has. I’ve been working with a retiring couple to liquidate their multifamily portfolio out here just north of Boston MA. We’ve had several cash offers which in my market here… well it would be hard to even put a value on that – and still there is this hesitation in accepting perfectly reasonable, good strong offers.
At first I thought this was dollar driven. The fact is the longer this process has taken the more I’ve realized that the owner is emotionally connected to these properties. It is a strange thing and hope to never suffer from it in my own investments, but your observation about this woman, I find, is common in this business and it shows itself in a variety of ways.
Sean — We live the same lives.
>We do not see the whole picture and never will.
That’s the first lesson isn’t it?
Kelly — Your Grandma was mine too. The unspoken wild card is having family financially able and willing to seamlessly take over when the time comes. My grandma had four kids who did a stellar job for their mom.
>Jeff, you already know this, but some people don’t have the same desire for a high net worth as others.
Truer words were never said. Again I refer you to my first comment to you. It’s one thing to be in your comfort level. It’s quite another to do so without a safety net. It’s quite obvious your grandma had a very loving and effective family net right to the end. My great-grandfather died just 5 days after his 90th. Though not at home, he insisted they put his boots on. He was born just after Custer’s last stand and was NOT gonna die without his boots on.
Brecht — Your observation is spot on in my experience. One of my favorite clients steadfastly refused to exchange the 3 unit property left to him by his father. It was a subject no open for discussion, which I respected from Day 1.
Another client wouldn’t exchange an income property until their grandpa passed away. Why? ‘Cus it was Grandpa’s loan that got him started with that property. A little over a year later he passed away. It still took him a couple months to be OK with listing the units, which he ultimately did.
I’m a staunch supporter of a client’s comfort zone. It’s why I have no regrets when someone doesn’t do as advised. I take one additional shot then call it a day. I treat their comfort zone they way I expect mine to be treated.
I even state this policy up front so there are no misunderstandings. I’ve actually had clients say go ahead, take your last shot.
Jeff, I think your job is to help people come to decide if they are on the side of money or on the side of comfort. The best, of course, is somewhere in between if you can get folks to move just a little towards the net worth side.
I remember when you helped me to part with two beloved properties. It was hard but you were there for me with encouragement. I was young enough (and desperate enough…desperation is a good modivator)
Maybe this woman is very comfortable and doesn’t have allot of reason to make a move. At 62 (since I just turned 59) I understand that it can get harder to play the change game the older you get. Seems, more and more I crave alone time, peace and quiet, making a home. Stiving and the excitement of acquisition are less attractive now. Buying and selling take courage. with all the busy work of exchanging properties, it definately interferes with being an artist, musician, gardner or any other bliss activity one likes to pursue.
You may be projecting your own values into this women. I think she will be happy where she is. My Mom was a gardner and misses her garden in her condo. She comes over to help me but its not the same. She moved at 83 to a condo with only a few pots to tend to.
Some have guts and risk taking in their personality, some do not.
On the risk scale, I think there are some who are on the “no risk” end of the scale and this is why they don’t want to change anything. Just like those who only buy blue chips and bonds. They can make more in a small cap fund but they won’t go there…ever.
To inject some spirituality into this discussion (the Boss will get this) “Divine Perfection is the awareness that Reality is innately perfect.”
Or in the words of John Lennon, “Let it be”.
Cher — I couldn’t agree more.
The difference between your mom and other similar women is the ability to stand pat. That’s a luxury if it’s on the menu.
Many don’t have that choice, which makes their futures clouded at best. This is especially true if their family doesn’t have either the desire or financial horsepower to swoop in as the built in safety net.
I go out of my way to avoid projecting my values on anyone, specifically older clients. Again, comfort zones are priority #1.
I’ve had many clients, over the years, tell me they wished they’d gone along with my Plan on topic or another. It’s at those times I wonder if my ‘One more try rule’ is best. My conclusion is inevitably yes.
Ultimately it’s not my future or my money — or my comfort level. I can only tell them what I think best.
Their final decision is theirs alone, as are the consequences, good bad or ugly.
The favored post-decision conversations are those in which clients thank me for giving them enough info to change their minds. Even then, they changed their minds based on the ‘one shot’ rule.
It’s virtually impossible for me to combine the concept of spirituality and John Lennon. Sorry.